BBQ Glazed Seitan Brisket

Any suggestions for leffovers of this dish? I guess Shepherd's Pie could be one of them? Thanks

This brisket is very versatile. Being a very dense seitan, if grinding it into a 'ground brisket' there are many applications. Shepherds pie is a great choice, but also this can be a savory base for burgers, meatballs, base for Bolognese, taco meat, pepper steak sandwiches, etc. Keep in mind is that the glaze for the brisket is quite sweet which will also come through in other uses. Hope that is helpful. Cheers, Chad

I am having a couple of issues with this recipe. I know there is probably something very simple that I am doing wrong. I find it falls apart when trying to flip as shown in the video. It takes many utensils to flip. I have tried changing the ratio of liquid to dry ingredients but to no avail. Also, I don't think I am kneading it long enough as it breaks apart too easily when getting ready to shape for braising. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. It is a great addition to our sunday dinner meals as I am vegan and my husband still enjoys red meat a couple of times a week.. Great middle ground meal :-)

The simplest thing to do is make 2 smaller loafs. They will be easier to flip. They may fall apart if too moist, dry, or thin (a thick piece of protein has more strength). It should be very resilient as it's basically a mass of protein. Are you sure you are following the instructions and using the proper vital gluten "flour"? We have not had this issue come up before. ~Ken

I have made this on 3 occasions now Ken but can't seem to quite get the recipe to act like is shown in the video.. I did ask other classmates on our Facebook group and it seems I am not the only one with similar issues with the recipe.. I did comment that next time I will try splitting the recipe in two and making 2 separate batches and see what happens.. One thing i would like to mention is that in the video it tells us to use some of the dry seitan mix to sprinkle the counter with etc but in the text recipe it does not mention keeping a portion of the dry mix aside for this reason..

I am having the same problems as Sandra... i am wondering if the brand of the vital wheat gluten has anything to do with the problem. I bought Arrowhead Mills.... I am used to making bread and I have made seitan before with the older method of washing the flour and the feeling of this dough does not compare to the strong, elastic texture of the gluten. I will switch brands next time and see if that solves the issue. I hope for now that the seitan holds in the oven when I attempt to flip it.

This may be an issue with the type of vital wheat gluten. It seems that some people have a hard time with the end texture of this dish, while many have made it with success. There may be a couple factors that make the seitan very fragile to keep in mind and possibly trouble shoot when making it again. - The brand of vital wheat gluten may differ in protein %, which will ultimately make the dough more fragile. - If too much liquid was added to the dry batch to form the dough. The texture before baking should still be very tough and not able to tear apart easily, as the video suggests. - I too much liquid is added to braise when cooking the seitan. In the instructions we suggest using most but not all the liquid to braise in, this could be just poured up to the top of the seitan and not fully covering it, if too much liquid is used then the final dish will be quite soft. You want to crisp the top of the brisket each time before you flip it rather than it being covered with liquid. - Also, as Ken suggests - for flipping challenges you can split this recipe in two if needed or by using a spatula lift from bottom of dish and use two sets of tongs to flip - this seems to be easiest method. Given those factors, try the recipe again, keeping those in mind to see if the outcome is different. I hope that is helpful - Cheers, Chad

Thanks Chad. I think the issue is, in this case, as you pointed out, a low content of protein in the vital gluten. As Ken suggested, I did cut the dough in half and was able to flip it but the dough wanted to fall apart. When I flipped the seitan for the second time, I could feel that the structure was getting stronger as it cooked. I will report when I attempt this recipe with a different vital gluten. The house smells delicious though!

This recipe became one of our household faves during the Plant-Based Pro class. Now, I've made it more than a few times and recently took it to a dinner party where not everyone is plant-based and everyone really loved it. I use the leftovers on sandwiches. :)

Happy to hear! Thanks for the feedback. ~Ken

What can I use instead of wine?

Hi Junie - The wine does add an important flavor element, but you could use a good stock with few splashes of a good red wine vinegar (or other vinegar) for acidity and brightness and then some juice or sweetener to balance it and add some fruity notes. If that's too much to balance, just use a flavorful stock and some apple juice for sweetness. ~Ken

Hi. I was wondering how long the BBQ sauce will last in the refrigerator or if it can be frozen. Thank You

Hi Patricia- It's certainly freezable (in small batch) or you can keep it in the fridge for about a week. ~Ken

I make VWG products 1 to 3 times per week. I have a round of about 20 recipes that I pick from. For the first time with this recipe I have produced a gummy product. Hard to cut and the cuts tend to stick together. Never seems to be fully chewed. I love the flavor, but not the texture.The only way I can use the product is to grind into small pieces and, by hand, separate the sticky mass into small pieces and fry until it is no longer sticky (about 10 mins) To be sure there was not something I did when preparing this dish, I repeated it with the same result. Assuming it wasn't fully cooked, I added about 30 minutes cooking time the third try. Still sticky and gummy FWIW, I am using Royal Product Red Lion VWG.. Any suggestions?

Hi Richard, This is the first time we have heard of this dish being gummy, chewy has been some feedback which some factors would give this a finished softer and chewy texture. Given you are familiar with VWG and you cooked longer I want to dig in a bit more if these factors were all considered so we can trouble shoot this issue. Here are some common reasons: - If too much liquid was added to the dry batch to form the dough will result in a chewy product. The texture before baking should still be very tough and not able to tear apart easily, as the video suggests. - If too much liquid is added to braise when cooking the seitan. In the instructions we suggest using most but not all the liquid to braise in, this could be just poured up to the top of the seitan and not fully covering it, if too much liquid is used then the final dish will be quite soft since the seitan absorbs a good amount of it. You want to crisp the top of the brisket each time before you flip it rather than it being covered with liquid. By having some dry heat surround the top of the seitan during the cooking process will give a tougher and more dense, less chewy finished dish. - If the heat was not high enough or not cooked log enough. The seitan should have some char pieces around the edges and the liquid reduced to more of a glaze over the finished product. If none of these factors applies to your process then we can continue to trouble shoot. - Chad

Thanks for your response Chad! I have made the dish twice since my earlier note. The first time I repeated the recipe exactly as written. Again the product was gummy and hard to use. I have checked my oven temperature and it varied quite a lot (plus or minus 40 degrees). It averaged about 385. I think this is typical for a home oven. I am determined to solve problems--and my wife said this was one of her favorite flavors of the varieties of seitan I make. If this makes the wife happy . . . Again I read your reply carefully noting that the seitan was never submerged deeper than about 75% of its thickness. This morning I made the dish as written, but before putting the mass into the oven, I precooked it on a griddle set to 300 degrees. I divided the raw seitan into three pieces for easy handling and then cooked them for about 10 minutes on each side. From there put the pieces in the broth and baked per recipe. The final product has a good mouth feel, good flavor and "meaty" texture. I am happy now. So is my wife. By the way, Worcestershire sauce is NOT vegetarian. It is made from fermented fish. Most of the ingredients for the sauce are already present in the recipe, so I added 1/2 teaspoon each of tamarind paste and kelp powder. Next time will increase both to 1 teaspoon. Sorry for the long set of notes. I am a retired chemist. My university students told me I was a "whys" guy. Don't like not knowing--my favorite question is WHY?

Oops, I see that the recipe calls for vegan Worcestershire sauce.Sometimes I am reading challenged. Is there such a thing as a good vegan version? I've tried every brand I could find and all are poor imitations of the real thing.\--with a price tag suggesting gourmet quality. Been experimenting with making my own.

Hi Richard- Thanks for the note... There are some good vegan Worcestershire sauces. I like the one from Annie's Naturals. You can also make it! I am happy that the recipe worked out, after you divided it. ~Ken

I've made this recipe a few times and it always turns out amazing! I grind dried porcini to make the mushroom powder and follow the video and recipe as written. When baking, it fills our house with the most delicious aromas. This afternoon, I sliced it thin to make BBQ brisket sandwiches on toasted multigrain buns and served it with a side of slaw - it was so, so good, everyone loved it! Thank you for the wonderful recipe!!!

Thank you Lisa, for sharing this wonderful note! And thank you for learning and cooking with Rouxbe! Chef Kirk

Could I use chipotle sauce in adobo instead of chipotle powder? I can't find it anywhere, and shipping alone costs 4x the price of the powder :/

Hi Rafaela and yes indeed, chipotle sauce sounds like an amazing alternative! Enjoy and thanks for cooking with Rouxbe! Chef Kirk

This recipe is fantastic! It made the house smell so good and I have enjoyed it sliced directly off the loaf, in sandwiches and pan fried for a tougher bite. In the past I haven't been much of a fan of Seitan but this amazing. The recipe makes a lot though - can it be frozen? Also, it took longer for my loaf to brown during each step and I ended up cooking it another 15 minutes at the end in order for the sauce to thicken. We live at 2600 elevation. Could this contribute to the variation in cooking times?

Hi Lisa! I am so glad that you enjoyed this BBQ Glazed Setian Brisket. I love this recipe as well. It absolutely can be frozen. Altitude does make a big difference. Generally it is more important to use your senses- taste, sight, smell, feel over any recipe specifications. There can be so many variables impacting the final outcome so good job noticing that this needed more time! Thanks for your participation in the Rouxbe community! Lauren

Hi: this marsala wine is dry or sweet, in the store have both, what should I buy? Thank you

Hi Carmen. Thank you for your question. I would recommend dry Marsala here. I prefer to have dry on hand because it is suitable for most savory applications. Lauren

Decided to read through the comments here prior to starting on my seitan. To Richard D, who was looking for a vegan Worcestershire sauce, I'd like to recommend Cajun Power brand Worcestershire. It's an extremely flavorful sauce, which is also accidentally vegan. The product is made in Louisiana, but I've found it in other states and on Amazon.

How long does the seitan need to need kneaded? The video shows just a couple of minutes? Is this right?

Hi Tracy, Great question. Kneading is done to help shape and create texture in the dough and not to develop gluten. You will not need much time kneading. If you have the right ratio of wet to dry, you should be able to stretch the dough, without it tearing too easily. I hope this answers your question.

When you google this recipe it shows up with 2 stars - I can't figure out how to review it, but, it definitely doesn't deserve the low rating. I have made this several times and, yes, it can be difficult to . If that happens, just cut it in half. It's sooo worth it! The taste and texture are perfect and everyone I've served it to absolutely loves it. The directions state to add less than half of the liquid as you start to combine it with the dry mix - not half, LESS than half - so keep that in mind. I actually prefer mine to be a bit wetter, making it difficult to - I prefer the shape and finished texture better this way. When you leave it as it should be (adding less liquid), it's still very good, easy to , and makes a nice firm seitan brisket - I just prefer it the other way. Love this recipe! Thank you Rouxbe!!!

can this recipe be braised instead of putting it in the oven? is there also a link for the vegetable stock recipe that you could recommend?

Hi Jacinth. In this recipe we are essentially braising in the oven. If you would rather do it on the stove top, you can. The dry heat of the oven helps this become firm and chewy. I prefer the oven to the stovetop in this instance. If you are braising on the stove you will want to add a secondary method like searing to give the brisket a char on the outside. Lauren

After reading all the reviews, I was a little worried about make this, but it came out great! I found that the key point is adding the liquid a little bit at a time till you get the right consistency for stretchy but strong. I’m excited to mess around with the sauce to achieve the sweeter flavor my family and I enjoy! Thanks for the recipe!

Can an alternate red wine be used instead of the marsala wine? I.e., a Cab or Pinot Noir etc...

could i use the prepared seitan from this recipe, and create crumbled seitan using a food processor?

Exactly, Mavis. I have done that before and used it in a variety of dishes. Lauren

This dish looks and sounds great but most of my family eats meat, can you use beef brisket instead of seitan? Also will the measurements remain the same?

Hi Lucy: thanks for writing. The recipe for sauce that accompanies this dish is truly meant for the seitan, in that, the seitan roast absorbs a good deal of the liquid. Plus, I am not sure what the size of your actual brisket would be, and its roasting temp and time. I would suggest the following recipe for a terrific BBQ sauce that your family and friends will also enjoy: https://rouxbe.com/recipes/5118-smoky-bbq-sauce I would also suggest and I hope you get to make the actual seitan roast, bec it is a big favorite with many meat lovers. Thank you so much for writing. Cheers, Char

Thanks so much for this great recipe! My family and I really enjoyed it.

Hi Sonia: Thanks for writing. This recipe is very versatile, and can be used in so many ways. So glad you enjoyed the recipe. This recipe for seitan makes a great amount of food! It makes great taco filler, pizza topping, and so many other ideas! Cheers, Char

This is a great recipe, the seitan is really flavourful! A question about the Marsala wine, is the recipe correct saying 1 1/2 cups of wine - as in 12 oz ? If so, perhaps reducing the wine by half and adding something to replace it with ? Thank you

Hi Andy: Thanks for writing. I do not cook with alcohol at all. When I make this, I use 12 ounces of liquid--usually a mix of water and a dark fruit juice, or vinegar with the juice. You are 100% correct with your idea. This is a great recipe for seitan, and perhaps the best tasting one, ever. Let us know when you make it next! Cheers, Char

Thanks Char, I will try some fruit juice this time! Thanks for the tip!

Andy: Let us know how it works out for you. Happy Saint Patrick's Day! Cheers, Char

I have made this twice now and it became our favorite seitan recipe. The consistency is perfect and it is very flavorful. I found the chili a bit too strong in the first try, so decreased it in the second. Also added some coriander and oregano in the seitan mix. Made in two pieces to turn easily. The sauce is delicious. Thank you very much Rouxbe chefs for this amazing recipe.

I saw the complaints that the seitan wasn't a good consistency, so I was very conservative with how much of the liquid i put into the dry mix, and it worked well, was hard to pull apart, etc. I liked that the consistency went from doughy to solid, without having to deal with the 'slimy' texture of the seitan I have bought in the past ... and haven't used in many years. It was easy to make; the cooking time is long, but not requiring constant attention. Next time I'll add more water and less of the salty ingredients. It was a bit much for me, but did have the flavor of brisket gravy. Thanks, Marsha

Hi there, we have made this recipe many times and absolutely love the flavours and textures. My question today is to ask what you would suggest to use if we wanted to have a "chicken" / poultry flavours in the end. How would you season and what liquid would you suggest for the wet ingredients? Perhaps something less sweet than apple juice etc. Thank you ! Andy

Hi Andy-- this is a great recipe. If you take a look at the seasonings: 2 tsp chipotle powder: replace with same amount of poultry seasoning, or more to taste 3/4 cup tomato paste: omit 1/3 cup maple syrup: omit 1 1/2 cup marsala wine: keep 2 tsp vegan Worcestershire sauce: keep 1 tsp liquid smoke: optional 2 1/2 tbsp apple cider vinegar: omit 1/2 cup tamari: keep: keep 3 1/2 cups vegetable stock: keep REPLACE TOMATO PASTE and MAPLE SYRUP with water. I have made the "poultry version," and it works well. You could also add garlic powder, onion powder, etc. to add more zest to the dish. This works well without any barbecue flavors. Let me know how it works for you: char@rouxbe.com Take care, Char

Hi Char, thanks for the info. We tried this and it came out a bit chewy. I was thinking to use a lighter flour in combination with the gluten flour in the base mix. Perhaps a 70/30 split. Either a rice or quinoa flour ? What is your thought for that? Otherwise the flavour is good it was just a little "chewy". Thanks! Andy

Seitan is one of my go-to dishes. Your instructions clarify what I need to look for. Thank you.